Troubles with Your Wife because You're A Cross Dresser?
Things to consider and some food for thought.

This page concerns having trouble with your wife or girlfriend related to your cross dressing. I have been wanting to write about this subject for quite a while since I think it is extremely important. Just never got around to it - until there was something in the support news group that set me off enough to post a long reply. I still need to write this page but I am placing the reply I wrote for the news group (NG) here since it does cover a lot of what I think needed to be said.

I have cleaned it up a little bit only to remove some of the specific things that related to the particular post I was answering. Later, I hope to return and give this a serious re-write. Enough introduction.

Before we get started, I have a suggestion. You are going to find a lot in here and some of it may be important to your future happiness. I know you probably print out stories for your enjoyment but this can be worth studying. My suggestion is that you print it out (about 9 pages or so - 8 in text) and then you can read it and review it in pieces at your leisure. Besides, I have always wanted to find my way into print and you can always use the paper to make paper airplanes so it wouldn't be a total loss.

If you are going to print this, it would print best right here from your browser since it would maintain the formatting. If you want to save it in TEXT format, click here and then save the text version that will appear. Now, on with the show.

The following is most of what I posted to alt.support.crossdressing on July 15, 1998.

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There comes a time when each of us must do some serious soul searching. This thread has caused me to do just that. I read it all and gave it some careful thought. My first decision was to just leave it alone - not post anything on this subject. This is a support group and, I suppose that means that we are here to listen and provide encouragement. Sure, that makes everyone feel better including ourselves.

Well - it takes a true friend or a total stranger to tell you that your breath stinks. I am both of those. As a cross dresser, I am a friend and want the best for us. I am also a stranger in that I have never met any of you. The problem is that I care. I know I can't do anything about what is going to happen but I just can't sit back and watch a train wreck without mentioning to the engineer that there is a sharp curve ahead and he is going too fast. I care too much.

Now, at the risk of - NO - KNOWING that everyone will want to kill the messenger, I will give MY OPINION. This is only my opinion. I hope you all will read it and ask yourselves how valid the logic is and not how you feel about the subject. Believe me, I FEEL pretty much the same as you do about how things SHOULD be but I am talking about how things are.

"Girl" *(the cross dresser I was answering)*, I fear you are riding for a fall. I predict that "You're going to lose that girl" as the line in a song once said. I intend to spell out why I think that and you can then drive your train into the curve as you see fit. But, there is something for all of us with wives or girlfriends to think about in what I am going to try to say.

If there were no speed limits of any kind on our cross dressing, we would all drive (dress) at different speeds'. Some of us would dress full time and some of us would not. If there were no price to pay at work or at home or in society or anywhere, we would do as we darned well pleased. Some of us already do just that and either don't care or ignore the price that is attached. This is a decision we must all make for ourselves.

When I am driving behind a slow driver for several miles before I can get around him, my speed will shoot up very high when I finally manage to pass him. This has taken me well into triple digits on my speedometer on some occasions. Yes, I wanted to be driving at 75 but, having been frustrated by being held back so long, I push it up to 110 and beyond. This type of reaction is just human nature and happens in a lot of things in life including cross dressing. I have grown to be able to control it in my driving now but it does take some effort.

Most of us have been frustrated and held back in our cross dressing desires for various reasons including simply holding ourselves back. When and if we do get loose... Well, you see where I was going with that.

We should take a moment to talk about wives or girlfriends. They too have hopes and expectations. They were attracted to us for a variety of reasons which may even include things that we know are related to our cross dressing even if they don't see it. That does not mean they wanted to or thought they were marring a female. Wait! I know we are not females and they know it too. Still, we walk like a duck and we try to quack like a duck but then we want to point out that we are not ducks.

Let's put ourselves in her shoes for a little while. No, not her dress, only her shoes. Now, what are some of the things we feel or expect or need from our husbands? We should be good at this. We keep saying how much our minds seem more feminine. This should be a good exercise for us.

Well, we want to be proud of him - (our husband). We want to be able to say, "Look what I got." Remember that car you bought once? Your friends just shook their heads and told you that you got a lemon. Sure didn't make your day and didn't make you feel good. Then there was the really nice car and everyone admired it. That felt great. Oh, the one with bad paint? You always found yourself saying, "It's not pretty but it sure is fast. You wouldn't want to race me, would you?" Note that you were making excuses here. "Yeah, the paint stinks so it looks bad but..."

OK, slip her pumps on again. We want to be proud of our guy. We/I want him to love me and fulfill some roles. Those roles could include a lot of things and it will be a different list depending on the people involved. Whatever the list, we hope he can fulfill it - or most of it. It sure would be nice if he didn't embarrass us with our family, friends or community. I won't even mention children here.

* * BREAK * * I got several replies after posting my article and I am including a little from some of those replies. The following is from one of them. Since I didn't ask or get permission - I won't give the writer the credit she' surely deserves. * *

I had a most enlightening discussion with my therapist a few months ago. She asked me what it meant for a woman to be seen in public with her husband? While this may not *sound* like a deep question, it wound up having a lot impact.

There are a host of messages sent out when a woman and her husband appear in public together. Here (in no particular order) are some of the main ones: She is desirable, unavailable, cared and provided for, and enjoys an elevated social status. This is not intended to be reflective of how she 'ought' to be perceived, but more the reality (in general) of how she *is* perceived. There is a sense of security she feels being with her husband.

Now, compare this to the messages sent out by a woman seen in public with her husband in drag, *especially* if he is read. Take all of the above and negate them. She will be perceived as not desirable by any 'normal' men, having to settle for the 'thing' she is with. People will stare and basically make her feel like an outcast. If he does pass, then she runs the risk of being perceived as a lesbian. Either way, it is not the presentation she is looking to make

This, in general, is the basis for a lot of the shame and humiliation our wives and SOs speak of when it comes to us. It isn't so much that they are ashamed of us as it is they are ashamed of themselves . Forget about all the arguments that 'it doesn't matter what other people think' because with few exceptions, that does nothing to alter our wives position.

* And yet another reply contained the following. *

My wife was recently out to dinner with several of her friends, and one of them brought up a situation where one of their sisters was married to a crossdresser, and all the women passed comments like "pathetic" and "how horrible." Which, of course, had the effect of bringing up a new sort of pain in my wife's gut - what if they find out that _she_ is married to a CD - she knows exactly what the other hens in the henhouse think - and what they would say about her behind her back (I bet they'd be real polite about it up front), but if they were out to eat and my wife wasn't there, then of course, she would be grist for the mill . . . .

* * You should probably read the above 2 replies TWICE. They are extremely informative. * *

* * Now, back to our program - remember, we are still wearing our wives shoes. * *

Then there is what we see. We liked what we saw when we got him. He liked us too and we need to keep some of whatever he liked and trot it out every now and then to remind him. We sure would love it if he would do the same and help keep our interest in HIM alive. We NEED that.

OK, kick off the shoes and let's talk. There is a lot more to learn in those shoes but you can do that on your own. Personally, I plan to do a much more complete job with this and add another page to my Web site to cover these issues (as I see them). No, I'm not a wife. I am a cross dresser. Remember that as we talk now.

We have the NEED to dress. That need is greater or smaller for each of us and how much we need to do varies widely. If we are alone and don't care about other things we can and should do whatever we want or need to do. Did I forget to say "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else?" I suppose that would rule out my need to shoot somebody. Guess I will have to control that need if I have it.

You see where I am going here. It is not only possible but probable that what we want to do will hurt someone. It won't hurt like shooting them, but it will still hurt. Unfortunately the two people most likely to be hurt here will be the FAB (Female At Birth) in our lives and - US. Yeah, we will ultimately be hurt too if things go too far. That is assuming that the woman you love is important to you and losing her (and possibly half your money, reputation and other things) would hurt.

But we NEED to do this. Yes, there's the rub. We do need to do this. We just saw that shooting someone is going too far but doing nothing will be the same as shooting ourselves. Where do we go? It comes down to a question of "how much" or "how far" and that is what will separate the winners from the losers.

If we look at it strictly from inside ourselves we will paint the picture the way we want to see it. If, however, there is someone else who is to be directly affected by what we do, we need to include them in the picture we are painting. They too have thoughts and feelings and needs. What we see as OUR problem is also very much THEIR problem too. If we fail to give that careful and reasonable consideration - it could become our loss.

You come home one evening and your wife has donated all your girl's or guy's clothes to Goodwill. It doesn't matter which, she didn't ask you or consider your feelings. She just decided that she NEEDED to do it. What is the result? Stop giggling! I know it might be fine if it turned out to be the guy stuff but you know what I'm trying to say. Suppose she traded your Jeep for a Yugo. You get my drift. You both need to work these things out with love and consideration and most of all you need to use give and take.

The point is that there is probably a livable solution and you need to take the time to find it. If you put your heart into this, there is a good chance you can both be happy. If you go too far too fast, you will probably find that "He travels fastest and farthest who travels alone." and you will likely wind up doing just that - traveling alone. It's a choice you need to make for yourself. Do you want to keep her and make things work while accommodating BOTH your needs and hers or do you want things to take a different course? Your choice bud.

We all know that certain things go too far for the average FAB. Some areas that FABs object to may include things that change your body (not involving clothing). Also, changing your previous regular (daily) presentation can be very upsetting to your spouse. That last would not include wearing panties or anything like that but it would certainly include having "Slut" tattooed on your forehead or wearing a tu-tu all the time. OK, the tattoo is like the shooting I mentioned earlier. It was said to go right into the ridiculous. Backing up, we will find other things which I should not mention because a lot of you have strong feelings about one or more of those things. Still, you should consider which of those things you could live without for a while in the interest of compromise. Your FAB will be having to compromise on a lot of other things.

* * Another note * * I have added a little in places as I moved this to my Web page. I will now mention the things I omitted in the NG. I am not saying to avoid all of these things but I am mentioning that these are SOME of the things that you will need to give some extra thought to before proceeding. These things include hair removal, plucking eyebrows, piercing ears and wearing earrings, growing nails and painting them, wearing makeup (regularly) and any other things that are constant reminders to her and give suggestions to others so that they go on to embarrass her. * * OK, back to my NG post. * *

There - I feel better. I have delivered my little sermon. The message was simple. It was a word of warning - nothing more. I hope you can accept that at least my heart was in the right place and I believed that some of us may have needed the reminder. Now I will point out a few things from the thread that I am placing this in. (The article someone posted that moved me to write this.)

* This is a thought from the article I was answering (now in my words). * Other wives at a meeting asked about her' long hair, did her' wife mind it being that long and didn't it remind her' wife of the cross dressing. * *

Clear indication that some wives do object to either the long hair or at least to the CONSTANT reminder that you are a cross dresser. Remember that everyone needs time off from whatever. A wife may need time when she is NOT reminded about our cross dressing. I am not suggesting for a second that you give in on every issue but read through the list and see if any of them are issues where you can compromise a little.

* They asked how I styled it for work versus for femme *

Wives care how we look as men - clearly shown by your words above.

* This is a thought from the article I was answering (now in my words). * The wives and girlfriends there all seemed to have little things that they will or will not accept. * *

This simply points out that you understand that there are limits to what wives can handle.

* they noticed the multiple pierced earring and asked about these too. *

Another body change. You are not their husband but their questions do show that there is concern in various wives on this subject also. The pile on your wife's dish seems to be getting larger.

*Another thought from the article I was answering (in my words). * This cross dresser had only "come out of suppression" 3 weeks earlier after many long years of doing nothing much about his needs. * *

Yeah. You got past that slow car at last and now you have the peddle to the metal.

*Another thought from the article I was answering (in my words). * Commenting on and guiding this cross dresser's makeup (worn all the time) was not a role his wife wanted to play. Due to the possible extremes, she did, in an effort to keep him from wearing too much to work or home or other places. * *

This and a lot of other things you said seem to show me a wife who is trying to cope with an awful lot of things. She is trying not to get in your way too much but, at the same time, she is trying to keep some kind of a lid on things. These things also have a direct bearing on her life and she has a right to her feelings too or did you buy her at a slave auction?

* I have not told my wife of these plans, so I am not sure how she will take it. * (This related to hair coloring to cover his grey) * *

A reasonable change in hair color is fine (as I see it) but you are showing your continuing concern for her trying to hold the line at various places. I only included this one to show that you know what is happening.

* The wives are expecting us to show some traces of CDing * (At the meeting the wives were noticing various signs in the CDs there.)

And a lot of them are trying and hoping to keep some of our CDing from showing up when we are dressed as guys. Would you let your wife dress as a guy? You better answer yes to that one. Now, would you let her grow a beard and keep it all the time no matter how she is dressed?

I can tell you my answer to that one. I can also tell you how I would react if my FAB got a crewcut or did anything else that would deprive me all the time of seeing my woman. If she needed to present that way some of the time, I could handle it. If she BECAME that presentation, that would be quite another thing. Sorry.

* Once I make a decision to do something, I don't wait around to implement or contemplate it. *

And, so, with bit clamped firmly in our teeth, we mash the peddle to the floor and let the chips fall where they may. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

* She was doing a lot of crying and for the first half of the session did not really want to talk much. She was upset, because she was angry and felt she had lost the male she married. *

Dammit - she is entitled to her feelings. Your explaining or telling her that you are still the same person or possibly even better just won't wash. Women work with feelings and her feelings are saying she has lost her male. My opinion is that she needs some TLC from her man. Her feelings can change. Look at all she is tolerating so far. Giving her some break in time could keep you from suffering a loss somewhere down the road. Handle this right and it could turn out very well for both of you. She has already stuck with you through more than a lot of wives would stand for. Cool your jets and bring her along slowly and you may well wind up a lot better off than most of us ever will.

* we did have fight over me wearing make-up *

I am not commenting on your wearing "subtle" makeup to your kid's summer camp picnic. Here again you asserted your RIGHTS and did as you chose. Again, you don't need to yield on all points but you would do well to yield on some points. You guys need to accommodate each other.

* my issue is you trying to control me, and us dealing with my crossdressing. * (said to his wife)

Excuse me! "US dealing with my crossdressing?" Seems more to me like you have dealt with your crossdressing and have made your decision. Now, all that is left is for her to get with the program and quit getting in your way. Even if you did buy her at a slave auction, you could still take better care of her than that.

"Girl" - I know I'm going to get fried for my opinion here. I knew that before I blew half my day working on this. I want to be liked as much as the next guy and probably even more than the next guy. This sure isn't going to help me be liked here. Again, I want you to consider that I am not a wife and I'm certainly not your wife. I am a cross dresser just like you are except that we probably differ in degree. That leaves us both with a clear basic understanding of cross dressing feelings and needs. You just broke loose and are on a high with a full head of steam. I see it and it troubles me because of where you might be in a year or two and where you COULD be if you worked at it a little differently. I posted this for you and for OTHERS who may be in the same boat and I did it out of concern for you and them. (Note - surprisingly, all the replies to my post were rather positive and most were very supportive of what I said.)

There is another consideration too. The FABs you leave behind will have a very bitter taste in their mouths from what they have been through. Every one of them is potential trouble for other cross dressers. These ex-spouses may well throw a man out if he so much as handles their clothes. They will tell friends how terrible things got and those friends will also form bad attitudes toward all of us. Not exactly what we would be hoping for.

Mine is one reply among many you got. Mine was also the only negative one. I almost didn't write it or post it.

[The following came from a reply that was posted before I weighed in with my long opinion that you have just suffered through reading. I also quoted it in what I posted.]

* * I get a lot of "you should do more individual sessions to deal with your individual issues." Where do they get this from?

I don't have any individual issues, either, (except frustration!) it's my wife's difficulties with my CDing that I'm working on. * *

I threw this in only because it is where a lot of us find ourselves. We think it is OUR problem and when we get it worked out, all that is left is to get the woman in our lives to cooperate. Anything less from them would be and is unreasonable. We need to remember that this is also THEIR problem and they only have it because of us and their love for us. Also, they have not lived with it as we have so they will need time. We already had a lot of time. We can now give them the time they need by unloading on them SLOWLY.

Shake up a soda and pop the top. Shake another soda and open the top - v-e-r-y - - s-l-o-w-l-y.

In the first case you have a mess to clean up while there will be something left to drink in the second case and very little mess.

* * End Of What I Posted to the NG * *

Here is part of another reply to my post. Again, I didn't ask or get permission to give credit to the writer so I will just paste in what they had to say.

* * * * * * * * * *

I always have to remember that I have had much longer to accept and understand me than she has, I have had my entire life and still don't so such a hot job of it all too often. She started trying 27 years after I did, and she is doing an admirable job if I say so myself.

Girls, give your wives time to get used to things, lots of love, and support them as well as they grow. Tell them you are proud of the amount of acceptance they have to this point. It has (usually) required a lot of work on their part to get to where they are now. Let them know that you see that, and that you appreciate the love they have for you that makes them even want to try to understand and accept us.

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There is more to come on this page if and when I get the time to work on it. The main and most important thoughts are already here and that was the urgent part. I do hope it helps someone.

Shirley Ann Sometimes

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Finally, let me plug two of my other pages here. If you have not read my page on telling your wife - YOU SHOULD. In addition to a lot of things you need to think about you will find some good links there. Also, I have a page written for Wives and Girlfriends. You may want to read my Wives Page but you should probably also print it out and give it to your wife when and if you feel she is ready for it.

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I'm not "Dear Abby" but I think this subject is very important and I will give you honest answers if you need to or want to talk about it. You may feel free to e-mail - Shirley Ann Sometimes. I will give you the straight answers if I have them. I would also GREATLY APPRECIATE any comments you may have on what you have found here. I would most especially like to get comments from any FABs who may have read this. You are, after all, what this is all about.

I have put together another page that ties in with this one. This page was written for wives buy you may learn something there too so take a look at "Wives Levels of CD Acceptance" by clicking on it.

I had a link here to a page titled "The Acceptance Threshold" which was written by a wife. Unfortunately, she seems to have taken it down. If you find this or something else I should offer, please drop me a note and I will replace the link that was here.

All materials on this page are protected by copyright. You may view or take this material for your own personal use but you may NOT reproduce it anywhere without my permission. If you want permission to use anything here, you should e-mail me and ask. Simple enough?
Used by permission and I thank you, Jenelle Rose